From Route Books to Real-Time Sensors: Lessons From 36 Years in Waste

[00:00]They handed me a route book and a map that was highlighted. They said, “Here’s your route. Here’s how you operate the truck. Don’t come back till it’s done.”How long did the first route take you, you think?Sixteen hours.How low did you get that down to?I got it down to like nine hours.Isn’t that amazing?It is. The best part of that day was I got to the landfill… and I didn’t know how to dump the truck. So a gentleman—one of my best friends when I was a driver—worked for a competitor. His name’s Frank Perry. I backed up and said, “Excuse me, can you show me how to dump this truck?” And he goes, “Are you kidding me? They sent you out here and you don’t even know how?” And I said, “No, sir. I do not know how to dump this truck.”He said, “Let me help you,” and walked me through it.And he was a competitor.Yeah, but he was a fellow guy out on the street. His father was a garbage man too—Frank Senior—so he was a generational garbage man.
‍

All right—welcome to the Waste Nexus podcast. Today we have a new friend (not new to the industry), Mr. Mike Nelson. Mike, do you want to introduce a little bit of your history and then I’ll start poking you with questions?Thank you for having me. I’m Mike Nelson—I’ve been doing this since 1989. Thirty-six years.The group you started with eventually became… walk us through that story because it’s pretty wild.Sure. I worked for Jim and Tom Van Wen in their private family business in central Illinois—Vermillion Waste Systems. After two years, we became Allied Waste Industries. We purchased National Scavengers Inc. and Rich Van Hattam within a week of each other, and that was the birth of Allied Waste Industries.What were you doing at the time?I was a driver. I started out as a shop helper—around the shop, working on trucks. They hired me because I had a commercial license (not the modern CDL). They didn’t have a route for me at first, but they kept me around. Then somebody quit… and you can’t do it these days, but they literally handed me a route book and a highlighted map and said, “Don’t come back till it’s done.”Pre-time limits, right?Pre-time limits.
‍

[05:00]You were at Allied for a long time, then a stretch at Rumpke. The only big company you haven’t worked for is GFL. When people move on after a long time at one place, sometimes they do shorter stints—trying to find the right fit. Did that happen to you?Yes—part of it. The other part is, many times I got hired to fix something. And the way I’m wired, once I fix something, it becomes boring. The challenge is gone, and I need a new challenge. I always looked for a job where my only function was to fix things.Toward the end of Allied, I did operational support for the Great Lakes region—literally going and fixing things all the time. There was always something wrong in Michigan or Ohio or Indiana.
‍

We’ve talked about this on the customer service side of the waste industry—it never stops needing to be fed. Every day something gets messed up, and some customer calls and says, “What happened?” It burns people out.Customer service in this industry can be really challenging. People get really grumpy about trash. It’s the front line that gets the most grief, and they’re typically the lowest-paid people. I always tried to teach people: don’t take it personal—they’re not mad at you, they’re mad at the situation. But it’s hard for people to internalize that for eight hours a day.Especially back when we implemented fuel surcharge charges and all these fees—people would scream about it. It burned people out fast.And it’s hard to empower that position because it’s transactional.
‍

In your new role, you’re not geographically limited, right?No—not at all. All of U.S. and Canada.Are you on planes a lot or mostly phone-based?It depends. Some months I’m on a plane a lot. Typically I work from home a lot—Teams calls, meetings.You’re a Teams guy?Oh yeah.Then a debate about Teams vs Zoom vs Google Meet… and the iPhone vs Android fights.I can’t stand Androids.Green bubble friends. My son is an Android kid—you just don’t text him then.
‍

[10:00]Back when you were a driver, what are some crazy things you saw?There are some things I can’t even talk about. But I’ve seen people pull back the lids on a six-yard and put a piano in it. I’ve seen people load containers with concrete—can’t even pretend to lift it.There was one customer in central Illinois where somebody set their dumpster on fire. The guy had a clever idea: “I’m going to fill it up with water every day.” He ran a garden hose into it and filled it halfway with water. I’m dumping it like, “It hasn’t rained—where’s this water coming from?” He goes, “Oh, I fill it up halfway.” I’m like, “Can you stop doing that?” It’s heavy. It fills your hopper with water, then you leak everywhere and people complain—and he’s paying for it! It splashes your cab. It’s awful.
‍

But you didn’t deal with fires like they do now with batteries getting crushed in the hopper, right?No—back then, it was pool chemicals. People would clean out their garage at the end of the season and throw them away. Chemicals mix with a little water, heat up—that was a thing.Now it’s lithium batteries.Major problem for MRFs, haulers—everybody.Those fire rover videos are great—little hose goes out and puts out fires, even on loaders. It’s like, how was this not done before? Now it’s becoming standard.
‍

I wonder what they’re going to do for trucks though—you can’t lose these trucks routinely.Front load trucks are like $500,000 now. They could catch fire a week after delivery and burn to the ground.Heavy equipment at landfills had fire suppression systems—dozers, compactors. I don’t know if that can be incorporated into front load, rear load, side load trucks.The challenge, as I understand it, is lithium ion batteries have to burn out. It’s like magnesium—once it’s on fire, it’s on fire.
‍

[15:00]That’s why they dump the truck, right? But it’s wild seeing six tons of trash burning in the street.I’ve done it. I’ve dumped my truck many times as a driver. If you see fire, first rule: dump the truck. Second rule: drive away so it doesn’t melt your brake lines.
‍

Funny story: I had two employees dump their truck. One decided he was going to be great and he was two blocks from the fire station—he dumped the load in front of the fire station. They couldn’t get the trucks out of the building.The other one dumped it in a gas station.Neither resulted in anything terrible, but it became the topic of the next morning safety meeting: please do not dump in front of the fire station doors… or at a gas station.The fire department was responsive, and one firefighter came over and said, “You let this bonehead drive your truck?”He wasn’t a bonehead until this point.
‍

A lot of safety rules exist because of something that happened.All of them. Do you ever read Mike Rowe’s thing—“Safety Third”?No.His pitch is everyone says “safety first,” but businesses exist to make money, and safety isn’t always their top priority. It should be your priority—you’re responsible for yourself.That might have made sense to the guy to drop burning trash in front of the fire station. The gas station… I can’t see that one.
‍

A question came up the other day: do compactors always have to be made of metal? Metal rusts and is heavy. Have you seen a compactor made of anything but metal?I’ve never seen a compactor made out of anything but steel. Maybe carbon fiber or plastic would be too expensive. Obviously cylinders and hydraulics have to be metal. But no—only steel.
‍

Rust is regional. Midwest: lots of rust—your trucks rust. Texas: not bad.I heard of someone in Texas who doesn’t even paint cans or compactors—just primer—because they wear out before they rust out.I’ve never heard that. Now I want to find that company.
‍

[20:00]When I worked for JJ’s Waste (Australian company), in Australia their containers are galvanized. Too expensive to do in the U.S.Why is it less expensive there?I don’t know if it’s less expensive—rust rates are so high there because of the climate. Everything rusts. Maybe galvanizing extends the life enough that the alternative is more expensive.
‍

I’ve only ever seen one stainless steel compactor—Cright did one. It’s wild looking—super shiny, the DeLorean of compactors. I can’t imagine what it costs. Probably a $70,000 container. I don’t know what’s going in it, but it would be wild.
‍

In what you’re doing now, are you covering all kinds of equipment or what are you focused on?Right now I’m focused on containers, compactors, balers. I’m researching depacking equipment for organics—still learning that space. Also getting familiar with the Canadian market. They have a lot of plastic containers up there versus metal. I like the look of them.Is that because of the cold or organics?I think it’s both. You can change out panels and colors, which is cool, but people got frustrated because you can’t just weld new casters on, and once it breaks you’re scrapping.
‍

Have you seen the modular dumpsters at Waste Expo? Front load 2-, 4-, 6-, 8-yard—bolt them together.Yes, I saw that.I think it’s awesome—like the IKEA of dumpsters. They show up and you assemble them. Everything has a serial number, so when a part goes you order the panel or caster online.
‍

Do you think the challenge is most properties don’t want to be involved in that problem? They just want to say, “Fine—send me a new bin.”Probably in 95% of cases. But it’s interesting. I’d have to see how it functions in the real world and if it’s durable—how rugged it is on the street with a front load truck.
‍

[25:00]When you started, what technology was involved—and what have you seen come up?When I started it was a truck and a map. The truck was just a packer with hydraulics—no sensors, no backup cameras. Shifters weren’t electric. Some residential trucks were manual, which was wild.Now technology is great—trucks with nine cameras, sensors, air conditioning.Until I drove a truck—around 1997/1998—was the first year we got a truck with A/C. I literally thought, “They make garbage trucks with air conditioning?”You probably fought over who got the first one.We did. Seniority ruled.Where were you then?I was with Allied in LA, but I’d commandeer it whenever I had to run a route. “Sorry—I’m using your truck today.”
‍

In equipment now, are you seeing sensors play into things like front load bins?Yes—big ask right now for tilt sensors. It’s a way to track and keep haulers honest. Customers say, “You missed my pickup,” and the hauler says, “We were there.” With independent tracking, customer service can look in real time and answer without “I’ll call you back.”We’ve seen it cut down on false negatives—quickly proving true or false. Sometimes you picked up the neighbor’s container, your GPS flagged it as theirs—now you can validate. It cuts down that frustration cycle and improves relationships because they know you know.And sometimes customers aren’t honest—they reload their container and claim it was missed. It happens.Tilt sensors keep everybody honest.
‍

We usually end with a lightning round. You good for that?Sure—I don’t know what that is, but I’m in. Is the Pope Catholic?Yes.Where did he go to college?I have no idea.Public company you’d want to run?Waste Connections—very decentralized model, people seem happy and stay a long time.Field of dreams—what sport?Baseball.Did you play?Yes—second base and pitcher.What time do you wake up?4:00 a.m. every day. (Except today—I was up at 3.)Cubs, White Sox, or Pirates?White Sox.Ice cream or cake?Cake.Which impossible thing would you automate?Making me dinner—so I can just walk into the kitchen and it’s there.
‍

Mike, thank you very much for joining us.Thank you. Appreciate it.There it is—thanks.

‍